Discuss the upcoming 4th movie, Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire to be released in March 2024.
#4976751
DancingToaster wrote: January 11th, 2023, 11:04 pm
Sav C wrote: January 11th, 2023, 12:23 pm Is it just me or are theatres not showing many comedies these days? I never used to be much of a theatre goer prior to around a year ago, but I get the impression that most comedies are going straight to steaming (I don’t have any data to back this up, so I’m probably wrong). Anyway, I know this was a minority opinion, but a few of us thought Afterlife was more of an amusing adventure movie than a comedy, whereas the original was decidedly a comedy. I was wondering if this has to do with audience tastes moving away from comedy, and if this is an indication that firehouse might not be a clear cut comedy the original was… Just a thought. Curious what others think.

Also, happy new year fellows! It’s been longer than I thought since I last posted…
The first movie is definitely largely a comedy, but it's really difficult to pin down its genre definitively, which is one of the things that makes it so great. I think Afterlife's moodier, more character-driven tone results from a few factors, including having Jason Reitman as the director. Perhaps, other than the easter eggs and plot similarities, they also did not everyone to be comparing it to the style of the originals ("these jokes aren't as good," "I wish these characters were as funny as the others," etc.).
A lot of current comedy is also very "self aware," with characters referencing how funny things are and breaking the 4th wall. The lack of this self awareness is a major source of GB's humor - they just deal with the ridiculousness of these genuinely freaky scenarios as practically as they possibly can. GB with the style of more current comedy, at least in my opinion, just wouldn't work as well. The 2016 movie might have also scared some people away from it.
Yes. The self aware thing! That started with the Judd Apatow style. It’s like now when something crazy happens in a movie the characters have to say “Isn’t this crazy everyone?” That carried over into the Marvel movies and now it’s just how things are done.

If GB was made today they’d make such a big deal out of the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. They bleed the moment dry.

The tone of ghostbusters is such a hard to needle to thread. I can’t think of another movie that has the comedy, the scares, the thrills, the action, the character work. Shaun of the Dead/Hot Fuzz thread that needle pretty well.

Ghostbusters really is a miraclemlol
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#4976814
Alphagaia wrote: January 13th, 2023, 1:20 am
BatDan wrote: January 12th, 2023, 5:35 pm In other words..Judd Apatow killed comedy.
I would say, comedy moved on.
Yeah it’s cyclical. Remember when the Austin Powers movies were the biggest cultural comedy touchstone? Then for a bit it was parody movies and the raunchy college “Animal House” riffs like Old School, Road Trip, Euro Trip, Van Wilder, American Pie

It seems we haven’t had a major comedy “character” in some time. The Ace Ventura’s, the Austin Powers, The Derek Zoolander’s, the Ron Burgundy’s, the old lady character from Tyler Perry.

What was the last big comedy movie everyone talked about where if you didn’t see it you felt left out of the conversation? Bridesmaids? The Hangover? And how many of those have any cultural staying power? Superbad seems to still be beloved and talked about. Same with Anchorman. But The Hangover isn’t really talked about beyond some memes. Same with Bridesmaids.

But comedy films from the last 10 years? I’m drawing a blank. Sure there’s been good comedies but not really any that hit that zeitgeist button where EVERYONE is talking about it.

It’s kinda fascinating how these things evolve and change. Like…Airplane! is still hilariously silly and would probably play still well. But a movie like Animal House which was considered like the funniest movie ever made at one point, I’m not sure if holds up to an audience today like it did when it came out. It was seen as super edgy & barrier breaking. But it’s rather tame compared to movies made even 20 years ago.

That’s why Ghostbusters is so special. It’s not the most laugh out loud dying in your seats comedy. Like I don’t think many people weee claiming it was the funniest movie of all time. But the comedy that played in 1984 still plays now because so much of it is rooted in character & dialogue. It’s quality over quantity. And it’s more chuckle than deep belly laugh. Plus it has all that awesome spectacle, cool concept and the comedy.

When you watch the review or read the reviews of GB2 a lot of them, especially the Siskel and Ebert review, are judging it as a comedy first and foremost. So if they didn’t laugh, it was a failure to them.
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#4976816
To be fair, WAY too many people are too easy to offend to make great comedies these days.
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#4976823
JonXCTrack wrote: January 13th, 2023, 9:59 am
BatDan wrote:In other words..Judd Apatow killed comedy.
Fun fact - Harold Ramis was Judd Apatow's mentor.
Where did you get this from?

Gary Shandling was Judd Apatow’s mentor. In highschool Apatow scored an interview Harold Ramis for his highscool newspaper, but Ramis wasn’t his mentor.
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#4976861
Alphagaia wrote: January 13th, 2023, 1:20 am
BatDan wrote: January 12th, 2023, 5:35 pm In other words..Judd Apatow killed comedy.
I would say, comedy moved on.
From what? Its funeral?

Has anyone seen the new abismal History of the World 2 trailer?

Giant difference between the subtle new york charm Brooks gave his works and what the modern world allows him to do now. Looks like he wrote a draft and then it got hijacked.

Everyones doing thar “self aware” style of acting they all do in comedy now as to yell at the audience “this is a comedy!!! Look how silly we are!”

Go back and watch Young Frankenstein..Gene wilder never winks at the audience once. He makes us believe hes in that quirky world. And yes, Marty Feldman breaks the fourth wall a few times but it always comes off so natural and swift.
#4976874
Speaking of comedies that are outdated - I tried watching Porky's recently (it was one of my favorite comedies back in High School). Man, it does not hold up...had to shut it off 20 minutes in. I think every comedy is a product of it's era, and it's definitely something that has to evolve. For the most part.
Alphagaia liked this
#4976884
SpaceBallz wrote: January 14th, 2023, 2:13 pm Speaking of comedies that are outdated - I tried watching Porky's recently (it was one of my favorite comedies back in High School). Man, it does not hold up...had to shut it off 20 minutes in. I think every comedy is a product of it's era, and it's definitely something that has to evolve. For the most part.
There’s also that phenomenon where you watch a movie in a theatre with an audience, and this affects primarily comedies, and like the laughter of the audience gets a little infectious and so everyone’s laughing. So it sticks in your brain that “hey this is a really funny movie”. So you tell your friends.. “oh my god I saw this movie in theatres it’s so funny” & you sit down to watch it and…nothing. It dies. And you feel like such an asshole for recommending this movie. “Was I on drugs?” “It was funny wasn’t it?” but it’s just that weird alchemy that happens in only a theatre. Part of the magic.

The reverse can also happen. You watch a movie with the wrong crowd and it stinks then somehow you find yourself watching it again years later on some rainy afternoon and it’s like making a discovery.

Then there’s the great movie that you know in your bones is truly great but yet somehow no one has seen it and so you take this movie us as a personal cause to get as many people to see it as possible. The Iron Giant was one of those movies for me. Here was this wonderful, wonderful movie and yet almost no one had seen it. Every convert I made felt like I was helping the movie. And now to see it properly regarded as one of the great animated movies? It’s so satisfying. “Ah I’m not crazy. It is great!”.

For a long time Ghostbusters 2 was also a movie cause I took up. Not because I thought it was great, but because it had this reputation it didn’t deserve. The IMDb score at one point was a pathetic 5.6! Think about that. When I worked at a video store I would always tell customers to give it another chance and more times than not they’d agree it was a lot better than they remembered or it’s reputation suggested. I’m happy to say that when last I looked GB2’s IMDb score was a more appropriate, but still too low, 6.6. The fact that Ghostbusters only has a 7.8 is also disconcerting. That movie should be above an 8 at least. But comedies tend to get lower ratings for some reason.
#4976889
BatDan wrote: January 14th, 2023, 8:59 am Go back and watch Young Frankenstein..Gene wilder never winks at the audience once. He makes us believe hes in that quirky world. And yes, Marty Feldman breaks the fourth wall a few times but it always comes off so natural and swift.
The late Peter Boyle was also so great. He had to sing and dance as Frankenstein's Monster with Wilder in a tux and cane. The girl at the well/seesaw. The blind man, lol. Man, that whole cast was amazing. But I digress.
DancingToaster, Kingpin liked this
#4976892
I remember saying to a buddy when first watching Young Frankenstein that it felt just like an old Universal Monsters movie because of all the production work (seriously that movie looks beautiful). There are jokes, yeah, but kind of like Ghostbusters, it's a serious(ish) story but the main characters are comedic.
#4976902
RichardLess wrote: January 14th, 2023, 4:16 pmFor a long time Ghostbusters 2 was also a movie cause I took up. Not because I thought it was great, but because it had this reputation it didn’t deserve. The IMDb score at one point was a pathetic 5.6! Think about that. When I worked at a video store I would always tell customers to give it another chance and more times than not they’d agree it was a lot better than they remembered or it’s reputation suggested. I’m happy to say that when last I looked GB2’s IMDb score was a more appropriate, but still too low, 6.6. The fact that Ghostbusters only has a 7.8 is also disconcerting. That movie should be above an 8 at least. But comedies tend to get lower ratings for some reason.
I had seen GB1 so many times over the years, but until just a few years ago, never bothered with GB2. Then I finally watched it on TV and it's one of my favorite movies now. I fully acknowledge that GB is overall the "better" movie, but GB2 is so much fun that I watch both whenever I can.
I hope that the next movie brings back some of the exuberant joy (GB1 also had it, even though it's a bit more dry and cynical than GB2). Afterlife has the sincerity, but I'd like to walk out of the next movie grinning like an idiot.
BatDan liked this
#4976991
It doesn’t completely fall apart. It’s a bit silly I guess that they could steer the statue. It’s just the Vigo fight is the same as with Gozer. He knocks them down and then they shoot him back to where he came from.

Afterlife had a good final battle. It took everyone working together, crossing the streams didn’t work, the Mini Pufts were sabotaging the car and she/he got trapped.
#4976992
WCat2000 wrote:It doesn’t completely fall apart. It’s a bit silly I guess that they could steer the statue. It’s just the Vigo fight is the same as with Gozer. He knocks them down and then they shoot him back to where he came from.

Afterlife had a good final battle. It took everyone working together, crossing the streams didn’t work, the Mini Pufts were sabotaging the car and she/he got trapped.
The statue is very silly. But I suppose works in a daft 80's way. And nostalgia helps.

But then the actual confrontation with Vigo isn't the same as Gozer. There is no escalation, or "surprise" element the original had with the Terror Dogs > Gozer reveal > Stay Puft reveal > crossing the streams. Vigo comes out of the painting, he doesn't "do" anything. Then he disappears and Ray does a Vigo face. The crowd sing. Everyone gets gooped. The End. It's over very quickly and isn't a particularly exciting confrontation or climax.

Afterlife does indeed have a much better climax.
#4976995
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:21 am
WCat2000 wrote:It doesn’t completely fall apart. It’s a bit silly I guess that they could steer the statue. It’s just the Vigo fight is the same as with Gozer. He knocks them down and then they shoot him back to where he came from.

Afterlife had a good final battle. It took everyone working together, crossing the streams didn’t work, the Mini Pufts were sabotaging the car and she/he got trapped.
The statue is very silly. But I suppose works in a daft 80's way. And nostalgia helps.

But then the actual confrontation with Vigo isn't the same as Gozer. There is no escalation, or "surprise" element the original had with the Terror Dogs > Gozer reveal > Stay Puft reveal > crossing the streams. Vigo comes out of the painting, he doesn't "do" anything. Then he disappears and Ray does a Vigo face. The crowd sing. Everyone gets gooped. The End. It's over very quickly and isn't a particularly exciting confrontation or climax.

Afterlife does indeed have a much better climax.
Ya there’s more escalation with Gozer but it’s mostly because we don’t know how Gozer looks before. Sure it would have been cool if Vigo did something else during this sequence but besides Stay Puft the 2 fights are the same to me.
DancingToaster liked this
#4977001
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:21 am But then the actual confrontation with Vigo isn't the same as Gozer. There is no escalation, or "surprise" element the original had with the Terror Dogs > Gozer reveal > Stay Puft reveal > crossing the streams. Vigo comes out of the painting, he doesn't "do" anything. Then he disappears and Ray does a Vigo face. The crowd sing. Everyone gets gooped. The End. It's over very quickly and isn't a particularly exciting confrontation or climax.
WCat2000 wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:47 am Ya there’s more escalation with Gozer but it’s mostly because we don’t know how Gozer looks before. Sure it would have been cool if Vigo did something else during this sequence but besides Stay Puft the 2 fights are the same to me.
The big surprise element and difference in GB2 is the Ghostbusters, Dana, and Oscar and by extension the world are inadvertently saved by the New Yorkers gathered outside singing Auld Lang Syne whereas in GB1 it was solely the Ghostbusters who saved the world with the New Yorkers watching from the streets. If those New Yorkers didn't get into the New Years spirit, the GBs were up the creak without a paddle. But yeah, hoping the climactic battle in this sequel will be more along the lines of Afterlife than GB1 or 2.
#4977002
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:21 am
WCat2000 wrote:It doesn’t completely fall apart. It’s a bit silly I guess that they could steer the statue. It’s just the Vigo fight is the same as with Gozer. He knocks them down and then they shoot him back to where he came from.

Afterlife had a good final battle. It took everyone working together, crossing the streams didn’t work, the Mini Pufts were sabotaging the car and she/he got trapped.
The statue is very silly. But I suppose works in a daft 80's way. And nostalgia helps.
I still think the statue walking is the great peak of GB2's actual story, that there is an enormous reservoir of psychic sludge under the city that can make extraordinary things happen. The statue itself is a totem to freedom and hope, so it makes perfect sense to be the thing in Manhattan that would be the emblem of the positive slime forces. Where it all falls apart is that Vigo isn't connected enough to the negative slime for there to be balance. The negative slime doesn't seem to do much that is objectively negative, other than manifest ghosts and make Ray and Winston (but not Egon, oddly) a bit ratty. If there were an equal negative totem that rose to meet Lady Liberty and was then overcome, almost like a slow motion kaiju battle, then it would feel more satisfying story-wise and would give a bit more spectacle right where the film sags.

I absolutely concede that the singing weakening Vigo makes the connection between him and the slime implicit, but I just don't think the connection is established strongly enough in the run up.

Afterlife has a similar issue where the original farm trap was for the second terror dog, but then it's for Gozer, but it's still somehow the same plan even though it's totally different and you have to head canon to fix the confusion. It's something Firehouse really needs to understand: The writing of it happened by accident, but GB1 is perfect in its ridiculous build to the conclusion. (The fact the Terror Dogs can appear, but then have to possess someone to... appear again actually works in that one because it's silly and funny and over convoluted in the way pagan ceremony often is and it pushes the story forward by putting something the Ghostbusters don't want to hurt between them and Gozer. Not that they hesitate much, but again - silly and funny!) You're never lost in GB1, or confused to the motivations of anyone. A bad god is coming, the world is going to end, all these ghosts are around because of that, these guys can stop it. It's brilliantly simple. More of that kind of simplicity with a whole new villain, please!
Last edited by robbritton on January 16th, 2023, 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
DancingToaster liked this
#4977003
One of the good jobs ATC made in 2016 was bringing the fight in the streets, I hope it happens in GB4 too.

Gb1= on a roof with people on the streets seeing very little

GB2= inside a locked museum with people seeing only a pink shield

GBA= on an isolated field with no witnesses.

The next one should bring the fight all over New York city, with maybe some citizens helping out the Ghostbusters and various Ghostbusters spread around the blocks.
Kingpin liked this
#4977009
Davideverona wrote: January 16th, 2023, 4:51 am One of the good jobs ATC made in 2016 was bringing the fight in the streets, I hope it happens in GB4 too.

Gb1= on a roof with people on the streets seeing very little

GB2= inside a locked museum with people seeing only a pink shield

GBA= on an isolated field with no witnesses.

The next one should bring the fight all over New York city, with maybe some citizens helping out the Ghostbusters and various Ghostbusters spread around the blocks.
That actually makes sense. Especially to keep the idea of the Ghostbusters to stay in business. Like if people actually SEE what's happening there more likely to keep up with the bills. The first 2 movies were downplayed to "stories" in afterlife and afterlife really didn't have anyone else to witness the events in the field. If there's maybe some recording of the next event or maybe some recording from Summerville from a resident that'd be great to try and kickstart the Ghostbusters again!
#4977030
robbritton wrote: January 16th, 2023, 4:50 am
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:21 am

The statue is very silly. But I suppose works in a daft 80's way. And nostalgia helps.
I still think the statue walking is the great peak of GB2's actual story, that there is an enormous reservoir of psychic sludge under the city that can make extraordinary things happen. The statue itself is a totem to freedom and hope, so it makes perfect sense to be the thing in Manhattan that would be the emblem of the positive slime forces. Where it all falls apart is that Vigo isn't connected enough to the negative slime for there to be balance. The negative slime doesn't seem to do much that is objectively negative, other than manifest ghosts and make Ray and Winston (but not Egon, oddly) a bit ratty. If there were an equal negative totem that rose to meet Lady Liberty and was then overcome, almost like a slow motion kaiju battle, then it would feel more satisfying story-wise and would give a bit more spectacle right where the film sags.

I absolutely concede that the singing weakening Vigo makes the connection between him and the slime implicit, but I just don't think the connection is established strongly enough in the run up.

Afterlife has a similar issue where the original farm trap was for the second terror dog, but then it's for Gozer, but it's still somehow the same plan even though it's totally different and you have to head canon to fix the confusion. It's something Firehouse really needs to understand: The writing of it happened by accident, but GB1 is perfect in its ridiculous build to the conclusion. (The fact the Terror Dogs can appear, but then have to possess someone to... appear again actually works in that one because it's silly and funny and over convoluted in the way pagan ceremony often is and it pushes the story forward by putting something the Ghostbusters don't want to hurt between them and Gozer. Not that they hesitate much, but again - silly and funny!) You're never lost in GB1, or confused to the motivations of anyone. A bad god is coming, the world is going to end, all these ghosts are around because of that, these guys can stop it. It's brilliantly simple. More of that kind of simplicity with a whole new villain, please!
Great write up.

I have to say…that evil totem Vs lady Liberty idea is pretty damn good. I can see it in my head. I could see with just a little bit more set up that this would give Louis something really awesome to do. He mentions playing super Mario bros earlier. So… the GB’s get into the museum the same way as they do in the finished film. Lady Liberty is just chilling outside. Louis arrives to do his bit. Suddenly a bunch of slime surges out of the sewers or off the museum and forms…something New Yorkers really hate. Tourists? No. What is something New Yorkers hate. Chicago Deep Dish Pizza? No. It has to be something that can go toe to toe with the Statue of Liberty. Honestly the biggest thing that comes to mind is Hitler. But that wouldn’t work. Anyways…whatever it is…Louis ascends Lady Liberty and takes the controls. The Ultimate video game! It’s a knock out drag em down street brawl.

That would probably add like 10 million dollars to the films budget but it gives us something we’ve never seen before. And does it in a way that isn’t automatically a retread of Mr Stay Puft. Plus the imagery of the Statue of Liberty punching out, I duno, the Eiffel Tower or something New Yorkers hate…

Anyone have any good ideas for what the Statue of Liberty could fight? It would have to be a real heel.
#4977035
RichardLess wrote: January 16th, 2023, 8:36 am
robbritton wrote: January 16th, 2023, 4:50 am

I still think the statue walking is the great peak of GB2's actual story, that there is an enormous reservoir of psychic sludge under the city that can make extraordinary things happen. The statue itself is a totem to freedom and hope, so it makes perfect sense to be the thing in Manhattan that would be the emblem of the positive slime forces. Where it all falls apart is that Vigo isn't connected enough to the negative slime for there to be balance. The negative slime doesn't seem to do much that is objectively negative, other than manifest ghosts and make Ray and Winston (but not Egon, oddly) a bit ratty. If there were an equal negative totem that rose to meet Lady Liberty and was then overcome, almost like a slow motion kaiju battle, then it would feel more satisfying story-wise and would give a bit more spectacle right where the film sags.

I absolutely concede that the singing weakening Vigo makes the connection between him and the slime implicit, but I just don't think the connection is established strongly enough in the run up.

Afterlife has a similar issue where the original farm trap was for the second terror dog, but then it's for Gozer, but it's still somehow the same plan even though it's totally different and you have to head canon to fix the confusion. It's something Firehouse really needs to understand: The writing of it happened by accident, but GB1 is perfect in its ridiculous build to the conclusion. (The fact the Terror Dogs can appear, but then have to possess someone to... appear again actually works in that one because it's silly and funny and over convoluted in the way pagan ceremony often is and it pushes the story forward by putting something the Ghostbusters don't want to hurt between them and Gozer. Not that they hesitate much, but again - silly and funny!) You're never lost in GB1, or confused to the motivations of anyone. A bad god is coming, the world is going to end, all these ghosts are around because of that, these guys can stop it. It's brilliantly simple. More of that kind of simplicity with a whole new villain, please!
Great write up.

I have to say…that evil totem Vs lady Liberty idea is pretty damn good. I can see it in my head. I could see with just a little bit more set up that this would give Louis something really awesome to do. He mentions playing super Mario bros earlier. So… the GB’s get into the museum the same way as they do in the finished film. Lady Liberty is just chilling outside. Louis arrives to do his bit. Suddenly a bunch of slime surges out of the sewers or off the museum and forms…something New Yorkers really hate. Tourists? No. What is something New Yorkers hate. Chicago Deep Dish Pizza? No. It has to be something that can go toe to toe with the Statue of Liberty. Honestly the biggest thing that comes to mind is Hitler. But that wouldn’t work. Anyways…whatever it is…Louis ascends Lady Liberty and takes the controls. The Ultimate video game! It’s a knock out drag em down street brawl.

That would probably add like 10 million dollars to the films budget but it gives us something we’ve never seen before. And does it in a way that isn’t automatically a retread of Mr Stay Puft. Plus the imagery of the Statue of Liberty punching out, I duno, the Eiffel Tower or something New Yorkers hate…

Anyone have any good ideas for what the Statue of Liberty could fight? It would have to be a real heel.
If anything can come to life there's an obvious gaudy gold-furnished building candidate nowadays, but I'm not sure what I'd pick in 1989. Some personification of Wall Street?
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#4977047
Davideverona wrote: January 16th, 2023, 4:51 am One of the good jobs ATC made in 2016 was bringing the fight in the streets, I hope it happens in GB4 too.

Gb1= on a roof with people on the streets seeing very little

GB2= inside a locked museum with people seeing only a pink shield

GBA= on an isolated field with no witnesses.

The next one should bring the fight all over New York city, with maybe some citizens helping out the Ghostbusters and various Ghostbusters spread around the blocks.
I think one thing that bugged me in GB2-GB:A was that everyone is forgetting one little thing: the giant marshmallow man walking through downtown Manhattan crushing cars and buildings. Then climbing a building, exploding and covering everything in marshmallow fluff.

That would be a little difficult to forget and sweep under the rug considering there were news cameras there too.
#4977049
Chicken, He Clucked wrote: January 16th, 2023, 3:21 am But then the actual confrontation with Vigo isn't the same as Gozer. There is no escalation, or "surprise" element the original had with the Terror Dogs > Gozer reveal > Stay Puft reveal > crossing the streams. Vigo comes out of the painting, he doesn't "do" anything. Then he disappears and Ray does a Vigo face. The crowd sing. Everyone gets gooped. The End. It's over very quickly and isn't a particularly exciting confrontation or climax.
If you think the climax of Ghostbusters II as it exists is underwhelming, you should see how it was going to end before they went through the reshoots: LINK:)
RichardLess wrote: January 16th, 2023, 8:36 amwhatever it is…Louis ascends Lady Liberty and takes the controls. The Ultimate video game! It’s a knock out drag em down street brawl.
A giant slime representation of a Red Sox baseball player. :boogieman:

I'm in agreement that if Ghostbusters II were made today, they would've had the guys using Liberty to rough house with some sort of slime monster, either before getting into the museum, or something Vigo manifests into... Like a paranormal version of Power Rangers.
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